Warts and all: A discussion about Oliver Cromwell

The following is a discussion I had about Oilver Cromwell via an internet chess website. I can't remember exactly how it started but we were talking about Cromwell and at some point I criticised Cromwell for his anti-Catholic violence in Ireland.

CHRISTINE:

Yes, he was a bit of a hard bast**d at times but many versions of history are biased (either side) and not really helpful. Cromwell was an important part of quite radical parlimentary reform and introduced the First Protectorate Parliament; a damn good idea if it had worked properly. I think many people in history have done a lot of bad to achieve good. Richard Harris played Cromwell brilliantly and I often wonder why he took the role and what he thought about it, him being Irish. On that point many modern (Irish) historians are now rewriting history because quite a lot of it is in fact untrue or so badly distorted that it isn't helpful - History is what makes us who we are. A lot of historians are busy putting together accounts made from accounts of daily life etc written by the common man because these are often more reliable altho verbal accounts passed down through generations can also get distorted. Here's something to ponder: We get our identity from history, culture etc and in many cases what went on in the past makes us stronger; India for example believe their country was better off when part of the Commonwealth as do some ex USSR countries (tho we plebs don't often hear about this in these PC/apologetic days). When you think of the Scots which picture comes to mind?? A hunking great bloke in a kilt with muscles that put popeye to shame - an image of strength and power. What image comes to mind when we think of the Irish? Little folk, guinness and shamrock. Scotland is now quite a powerful and respected country in its own right, no longer the bee sting in England’s arse. Ireland hasn't moved on much, they are still very corrupt (seen as normal over there) and backward, living in the past to a big extent. Yes their economy has improved, thanks in part due to IRA supporting USA and MASSIVE handouts from the EU (and you should have heard the outrage over there when they had to start paying some money back) but the (accepted) black market economy cripples Ireland. They aren't really powerful, rather 'bought and paid for'. Christy Moore wrote a great song about Ireland prostituting itself, but the people don't care as long as the money keeps rolling in. What happens when it stops?? What have they got to fall back on? Strength? No. Bitterness and hatred of the English? Well that hasn't got them too far. The evil done throughout history does of course matter, but it’s past. People have a choice, learn and get stronger or wallow and stagnate. Perhaps my opinion is incorrect and arrogant but it’s an educated opinion, not just from Studies but from living in Ireland - I hated everyday of it for the whole 6 yrs. That's got nothing to do with Cromwell really, well apart from the fact that the Irish in some parts still tell their Kids that if they don't behave Cromwell will get them. That’s why I wonder what made Richard Harris play Cromwell and he played it so well. I have to finish, Aidan is getting fed-up (adults shouldn't talk to each other) and I'm getting way off track. We all have our historical heroes to be (really) proud of, but I bet they did things that weren't very nice.

MICHAEL:

You said a lot of interesting things that gave me much food for thought. I think to call Oliver Cromwell a bit of a hard bastard is quite an understatement, but that opinion comes from the little I have read of him and of course these sources of information might be strongly biased against him, like you stated. Being a Catholic of largely Irish ancestry it is hard for me to remain 100% objective in my view of Cromwell but nevertheless I can understand why Cromwell is such a hated figure in Ireland. The fact that he defended and even justified his soldier’s actions after they massacred thousands of innocent civilians and spared no quarter at the sieges of Wexford and Drogheda paints Cromwell as something of bloodthirsty, bigoted fanatic. Even historians who are sympathetic to Cromwell find it impossible to defend his actions against Catholics in Scotland and particularly Ireland. On the flip side I do agree that parliamentary reform was greatly needed during the reign of Charles I and I can admire his vision and actions in this regard. The question is, did he do more good than evil? I don’t really have any heroes myself but one man I do greatly admire for his integrity and courage is Saint Thomas More. However I’ve read that he approved of the burning of heretics. I am not sure if this is 100% true but it still sits very uncomfortably with me. So maybe you are right. As a Catholic I am proud of Thomas More but burning heretics is certainly not a very nice thing to do. You seem to have a very negative view of Ireland and the Irish people. My knowledge and experience of Ireland is fairly limited so I can’t counter your claims. If what you said is true then you are right regarding how they must let go of their bitterness and hatred of the English. Yes the Irish were invaded and persecuted for hundreds of years and this is bound to have a lasting effect, but for the good of their own collective souls and culture and economy there must be forgiveness and a willingness to build a better future for themselves through hard work and a positive attitude. I have met some lovely Irish people so please don’t tar them all with the same brush. By the way I am flattered that your image of a Scotsman is a ‘hunking great bloke in a kilt with muscles’. That fits my description perfectly!

CHRISTINE:

Good points, but I still have to wonder about how much of historical truth is all truth or 'all of the truth'. Must admit that I haven't read anything about Cromwell and Scotland. Irish versions of 'fact' are being questioned by their own historians, seems they often miss important details out, like 'contributing factors' - eg large bits of what went on before an event took place that may have helped spark things off etc I'm not defending the actions of the British either, what is done is done and neither you nor I can alter things that happened hundreds of years ago. History is fascinating but we do have to put aside personal feelings and try to be neutral (is that really possible, we're told it is). I just love History and, perhaps wrongly, don't think much about who won, who lost etc. Confucius says " Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall" -many, many unsung hero's around then. Yes the Irish are very bitter, the Welsh are to a lesser extent but the younger generations in Wales are more inclined to reject history and just get on with life, they think being part of a global community is 'far out'. I believe the same can be said about younger generations in south Ireland as well. My ex (Aidans father) is Irish, his father's family came from Scotland way back when and you ought to hear him putting people right about Ireland. No, he's no lover of British history either, tho he does have figures he admires greatly, he is just sick of the 'romantic' view of Ireland, which he tells everyone is total BS. What annoys me about them is they have to blame someone else for EVERYTHING, nothing is EVER down to them and this goes back donkey years. Some point in our lives each and every one of us has to take responsibility for our own actions, no matter out walk of life, status etc. We will all face Gods judgement one day, 'may as well get used to the fact before hand. My parents had loads of Scotish music when I was little, I grew up listening to 'Scotland the Brave' and such like, so I grew up with that vision/idea of Scotish people in mind (never say die image)and it forced respect. Scotland has many hero's that Britain (Eng) likes to brag about but only in the context of 'Britain' if you know what I mean, Eng doesn't tend to remember them as fondly!! Ha, ha.
MICHAEL:

I think we have to question all 'historical truth', even if it forces us to face unpleasant facts or change our romantic images of a certain historical person or event. I must admit that I got my information wrong about Cromwell and his persecution of Scottish Catholics. Cromwell did shed blood in Scotland but it was the result of some battles against Royalist Scots, which he won. Yes, there are contributing factors surrounding historical events. In Cromwell's case the contributing factors surrounding his massacre of Drogheda and Wexford was that he wanted revenge for the massacre of English and Scottish Protestants in Ireland before he arrived on the scene. This is indeed a contributing factor but I don't think an 'eye for an eye' mentality can justify or condone Cromwell's subsequent actions against innocent Irish Catholics. Regarding the Irish's mentality to life, I must bow to your superior experience. If what you say is true I hope that they can grow up and take responsibility for the direction of their lives and country. Like I said, I know some really nice Irish people, so that is my only comeback.

The Grey

The Grey starts with Liam Neeson working as a security guard at a petroleum mining station somewhere in the northern regions of Alaska. He is a man devoid of hope and meaning, haunted by the memories of the woman he loved and lost. In this bleak frame of mind he boards a plane with some other workers and they fly south to Anchorage to enjoy their time off. However, for unknown reasons the plane crashes, a scene executed with great realism, and a handful of survivors, including Neeson, are stranded without hope of rescue in a hostile and brutal wilderness. The odds against them surviving are reduced when they become the target of a pack of wolves who are intent on protecting their territory. A gripping and exciting struggle of man versus nature naturally follows but The Grey is more than just a story of survival in the face of adversity. There is a good mixture of action and philosophy, with some characters questioning what they have to live for and if there is a higher power working to keep them alive. The tone is quite existential in this regards, especially from the point of view of Neeson’s character, but this dimension and the development of the characters along the way adds depth to the film and makes it more interesting. Liam Neeson is excellent in his role as the resourceful but jaded leader of the group. He is a fine actor with great screen presence, which is something that money cannot buy, and carries the film admirably on his broad shoulders. The cinematography is impressive, capturing the sweeping landscape of Alaska in all its beauty and brutality. The action scenes are well directed and the film has a good pace and balance. There is also a sense of realism, both in the characters and the action. Never for one moment do you feel that Liam Neeson will rip off his shirt and take on a pack of vicious wolves in the style of a die hard Bruce Willis. The Grey is a solid, interesting and entertaining film that is a good vehicle for Liam Nesson to flex his considerable acting muscles. 8/10

The Mission

The Mission is set in 18th century South America and is a deeply moving and powerful portrayal of the duality of human nature, with love and ruthless greed coming face to face in stark contrast. Jeremy Irons is a Jesuit priest, Fr. Gabriel, who successfully integrates with some native Indians and converts them to Christianity. In doing so he sets up a mission, taking the Indians out of the jungle and placing them in what would be described as a more civilised community. Robert De Niro plays a former mercenary and slave trader who, after a powerful experience of repentance and forgiveness, joins the mission community as a Jesuit priest and grows to love the people who he once killed and traded off. Set against this story of personal redemption are the political struggles of the Portuguese and Spanish to gain permission of the Church, represented by a Cardinal, to take over the land that belongs to the native Indians, which includes the mission. Conflict between colonial greed and native defiance becomes inevitable, and this causes tension between Rodrigo, a man of the sword, and Fr. Gabriel, who would be a modern day pacifist, as they disagree as to how they should meet their fate: with a violent resistance or a prayerful acceptance. The Mission is based on true events and this makes the blood thirsty greed of the colonial powers and the weakness and corruptibility of the Church even more chilling to the bone. Robert Bolt’s screenplay is deft and thought provoking, and provides ample dialogue and story for actors of the calibre of Jeremy Irons and Robert De Niro to sink their teeth into. Both are excellent and this is probably one of my favourite De Niro films and performances. It is also refreshing to see priests and Christian faith being portrayed in a positive light, De Niro in ‘Sleepers’ is another example. But when most people think of The Mission it is the musical score by Ennio Morricone that immediately comes to mind. His beautiful, evocative soundtrack really adds another dimension to the film and tugs at the heartstrings. It is not surprising that the Italian composer was nominated for an Academy award for his efforts. The film was nominated for several Oscars but only won one for the cinematography of Chris Menges. The climax to the film is both gripping and heartbreaking, and shows man at his best and at his worst. One of the best films of the 1980s. 9/10

The innocence of birdsong

The following is an excerpt from Birdsong by Sebastian Faulks. Jack Firebrace is a soldier in the trenches of World War I, and in the following passage he reflects on his son and the nature of his innocence.

‘His thoughts turned towards home. Eight and a half years earlier when his wife had given birth to a son, Jack’s life had changed. As the child grew, Jack noticed in him some quality he valued and which surprised him. The child was not worn down. In his innocence there was a kind of hope. Margaret laughed when Jack point this out to her. “He’s only two years old”, she said. “Of course he’s innocent.”

This is not what Jack had meant but he could not put into words the effect that watching John had on him. He saw him as a creature who had come from another universe: but in Jack’s eyes the place from which the boy had come was not just a different but a better world. His innocence was not the same thing as ignorance; it was a powerful quality of goodness that was available to all people: it was perhaps what the Prayer Book called a means of grace, or a hope of glory.’

Birdsong is a compelling and beautifully written book (although I must warn you that it contains some very strong sex scenes), but the thoughts of this character really made me think about what it means to be innocent and seen through the eyes of faith it offers a real hope to those weighed down by the world and their own sinfulness. People talk about losing their innocence, usually in reference to the carnal temptations of a secular society. But I think if somebody can lose their innocence then they can regain it as well. Like Jack says, ‘it was a powerful quality of goodness that was available to all people’. I think this gives hope to people who feel that they have lost their innocence through their mistakes and misadventures in life, often in the area of sexuality. Their soul can be reborn, in a sense, and regain that ‘powerful quality of goodness’. It is also something that is reflected in the parable of the Prodigal Son. The Father not only forgives his son but he clothes him in his best robe, gives him new sandals and puts a ring on his finger. The memory of our misdeeds might remain, and still cause occasional pain, but there is no black mark on our soul that cannot be washed away by God’s mercy and grace. This is a very reassuring thought.